How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?

[gmark]

My TH46PZ85U Panasonic 46" plasma picture is great, but there are some
times
where I can see a line or two of flickering, seemingly-distorted
information at the top
of the screen, AND some captions that are cut off at the bottom. I
suspect this top
is that band of information used to transmit extra information to
older sets, like closed
captioning, time, etc., but I'm not sure. In any event, I was
wondering if I could just
move the picture up a bit and eliminate this, AND possibly see more of
the captions
I'm missing. Or do I just have to live with it?

TIA!

Mark

[David Ruether]

Post by gmark
My TH46PZ85U Panasonic 46" plasma picture is great,
but there are some times where I can see a line or
two of flickering, seemingly-distorted information
at the top of the screen, AND some captions that are
cut off at the bottom. I suspect this top is that
band of information used to transmit extra information
to older sets, like closed captioning, time, etc.,
but I'm not sure. In any event, I was wondering if
I could just move the picture up a bit and eliminate
this, AND possibly see more of the captions I'm missing.
Or do I just have to live with it?
TIA!
Mark

I'm interested in the answer to this also. While I do not
have this problem with HD, but when I have occasionally seen
a broadcast graphic intended to check the centering of the
broadcast picture of the cable company, it shows the picture
to be VERY slightly left, and more placed low (the TV covers
very nearly 100% of the broadcast picture area, so I don't
get noticeable picture cutoffs, as you appear to have).
With SD, though, there is often an annoying band of closed
captioning signal at the top. I use the TV's picture expansion
control to get rid of this, but it would be nice to have the
picture properly centered. I don't know if this is an issue
with the cable company, or if going into the TV's service
menus could solve it...
Frank?
--DR

[Frank]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:44:23 +0000, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by David Ruether

Post by gmark
My TH46PZ85U Panasonic 46" plasma picture is great,
but there are some times where I can see a line or
two of flickering, seemingly-distorted information
at the top of the screen, AND some captions that are
cut off at the bottom. I suspect this top is that
band of information used to transmit extra information
to older sets, like closed captioning, time, etc.,
but I'm not sure. In any event, I was wondering if
I could just move the picture up a bit and eliminate
this, AND possibly see more of the captions I'm missing.
Or do I just have to live with it?
TIA!
Mark

I'm interested in the answer to this also. While I do not
have this problem with HD, but when I have occasionally seen
a broadcast graphic intended to check the centering of the
broadcast picture of the cable company, it shows the picture
to be VERY slightly left, and more placed low (the TV covers
very nearly 100% of the broadcast picture area, so I don't
get noticeable picture cutoffs, as you appear to have).
With SD, though, there is often an annoying band of closed
captioning signal at the top. I use the TV's picture expansion
control to get rid of this, but it would be nice to have the
picture properly centered. I don't know if this is an issue
with the cable company, or if going into the TV's service
menus could solve it...
Frank?
--DR

The first problem described, while not really common, isn't all that
unusual either, and it's one that was rarely seen on old-school
consumer-grade CRT televisions due to their over-scan setting, but
which in today's world of native 1920 by 1080 flat panel displays, can
certainly happen.

I should note that the problem is *not* usually related to a defective
television; rather it's just the result of having a full display,
something that only pros had in the old days.

The usual solutions range from placing a long strip of black
electrician's tape across the top of the panel (yes, I've actually see
people do this) to getting your hands on a copy of the service manual
and availing yourself of any relevant adjustments that might help to
resolve, or at least hide, the problem.

The TH-46PZ85U, straight out of the box, does offer some picture
adjustments, but I think that the truly relevant ones, such as
horizontal position and vertical position, apply only to the 15-pin
VGA computer input and not to the HDMI or component video inputs,
although I'm not certain of this since I don't own one.

You might also, Mark, if you haven't already done so, check over on
the AVS Forum for Plasma Flat Panel Displays at the following URL.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=167

The AVS Forum bulletin board is a wonderful place. I truly believe
that most of life's questions are answered there. The problem with the
AVS Forum is that you could spent the rest of your life reading all of
those posts. :)

If you check the specific forum that I linked to above, you might get
lucky and find another TH-46PZ85U owner with the exact same problems -
and maybe a solution as well.

If you're in the U.S., you could also try calling Panasonic at 1 800
973-4390 to see of they can offer any suggestions. If in Canada, try 1
866 330-0014.

Good luck!

[Frank]

Mark:

Just to follow up on this...

Since I had a few spare minutes, I just read the entire 128-page
service manual for your TH-46PZ85U and with regard to resolving your
issues with the product, nothing really jumps out at me, although the
AGING menu in the Service Mode contains a couple of potentially
interesting items called "1% WINDOW" and "SCROLL" that just might
warrant further investigation, but since there's no description of
just what these adjustments actually do, I can't be certain that they
would help you.

Regards,

[David Ruether]

Post by Frank
I should note that the problem is *not* usually related to a defective
television; rather it's just the result of having a full display,
something that only pros had in the old days.

Yes, mine does appear to display the entire 1920x1080 area
(the test pattern indicated this, since the tiny side and
corner arrow points indicated the whole pattern could appear,
but that it was very slightly off center).

Post by Frank
The usual solutions range from placing a long strip of black
electrician's tape across the top of the panel (yes, I've actually see
people do this)

I've been tempted...;-) But since the problem is one mostly
evident in SD, with that I use the TV's ability to somewhat
enlarge the overall picture, which can look quite good.

Post by Frank
to getting your hands on a copy of the service manual
and availing yourself of any relevant adjustments that might help to
resolve, or at least hide, the problem.

Scary for some of us...!
[..., but thanks for the further comments.]

Post by Frank
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].

--DR

[Frank]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:50:01 +0000, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
I should note that the problem is *not* usually related to a defective
television; rather it's just the result of having a full display,
something that only pros had in the old days.

Yes, mine does appear to display the entire 1920x1080 area
(the test pattern indicated this, since the tiny side and
corner arrow points indicated the whole pattern could appear,
but that it was very slightly off center).

I'm still on my first cup of coffee so I'm not fully awake yet, but if
the panel is native 1920 by 1080 and no portion of it covered by
(hidden behind) the bezel, and you feed it with a 1920 by 1080 signal,
and you can see, as you claim to, all 2,073,600 pixels, how could the
displayed image be "very slightly off center"?

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
The usual solutions range from placing a long strip of black
electrician's tape across the top of the panel (yes, I've actually see
people do this)

I've been tempted...;-)

LOL.

Post by David Ruether
But since the problem is one mostly evident in SD,

That's really the only time that you should even encounter this
problem. It's caused by old standard definition material that was shot
in some analog format and then digitized into a computer for editing.
It's not uncommon in this scenario to see garbage around the edges of
the captured picture.

This can be caused by a number of reasons. Head switching on the
playback VCR is a typical reason, especially with VHS and S-VHS decks.
Inserting a few of lines of video black at the top and bottom of each
frame of video will hide the problem and few viewers will ever notice
the difference. I've done this with old Sony U-matic content.

Post by David Ruether
with that I use the TV's ability to somewhat
enlarge the overall picture, which can look quite good.

It may "look quite good", but aren't you decreasing the apparent
resolution of the video when you do this?

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
to getting your hands on a copy of the service manual
and availing yourself of any relevant adjustments that might help to
resolve, or at least hide, the problem.

Scary for some of us...!

Manuals don't bite! Manuals are your friend!

Are you in possession of the service manual for your particular telly?

Note that modern HDTVs, and especially anything designed and built in
the last two years or so, are really just computers with some
peripheral devices attached, such as the display panel. Most
adjustments, therefore, are made by changing the values of items in
the service menus. This is usually done using the HDTV's remote
control. Very little, if any, electronic test equipment
(oscilloscopes, volt meters, etc.) is required. Because of this,
almost anyone can go in and tweak their HDTV's various internal
settings.

And if you're concerned about screwing things up, there's usually a
Reset function that will return all settings back to their factory
defaults.

Of course, writing down the values of all of the initial settings,
prior to making any changes, is also a good idea.

Post by David Ruether
[..., but thanks for the further comments.]

You're very welcome.

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Frank

Post by David Ruether
Yes, mine does appear to display the entire 1920x1080 area
(the test pattern indicated this, since the tiny side and
corner arrow points indicated the whole pattern could appear,
but that it was very slightly off center).

I'm still on my first cup of coffee so I'm not fully awake yet, but if
the panel is native 1920 by 1080 and no portion of it covered by
(hidden behind) the bezel, and you feed it with a 1920 by 1080 signal,
and you can see, as you claim to, all 2,073,600 pixels, how could the
displayed image be "very slightly off center"?

The panel could be not centered in the bezel - or maybe I should say the
bezel is not centered on the panel :-)

No,I'm not kidding. I have seen it, or at least I think I have seen it.
E.g., this monitor,an LG, seems to have the bezel just a bit off, not
even a millimeter, but with the beveled bezel and the glossy finish,
it's possibly an optical illusion. In this case, it's a slight rotation,
assuming I can believe my eyes.

In any case, it's hard to tell, since a dark pixel is hard to
distinguish from a non-existent pixel, and also my eyes are not 20 years
old any more :-)

[Frank]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:42:41 -0700, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Frank

Post by David Ruether
Yes, mine does appear to display the entire 1920x1080 area
(the test pattern indicated this, since the tiny side and
corner arrow points indicated the whole pattern could appear,
but that it was very slightly off center).

I'm still on my first cup of coffee so I'm not fully awake yet, but if
the panel is native 1920 by 1080 and no portion of it covered by
(hidden behind) the bezel, and you feed it with a 1920 by 1080 signal,
and you can see, as you claim to, all 2,073,600 pixels, how could the
displayed image be "very slightly off center"?

The panel could be not centered in the bezel - or maybe I should say the
bezel is not centered on the panel :-)

Okay, I see what you're saying. There's "play" (space) between the
inner edge of the bezel and the outermost row and/or column of pixels
on the panel and the bezel (or the panel) isn't properly centered
(horizontally and/or vertically) within this space.

I suppose that even if the product left the factory perfectly aligned,
rough handling while in transit to it's final destination (your home
or office or wherever) could have knocked it out of alignment.

I guess that if you're feeling sufficiently adventurous, you could
remove the rear cover of the unit and try to reposition the panel
and/or the bezel, perhaps with a "helper" watching the front of the
unit as you are performing the positioning/screw tightening operation.

Personally, over the years, I've often found GF's to be useful in this
role, such as holding the flashlight while my head is buried inside of
some electrical component making adjustments. :)

In the service manual for the OP's Panasonic HDTV that I read last
night, there were very specific cautions about the physical alignment
of the panel/bezel relationship. Of course, to remove the unit's rear
cover so as to gain access to the adjustments, it was necessary to
remove, I kid you not, 41 screws!

Post by Gene E. Bloch
No,I'm not kidding. I have seen it, or at least I think I have seen it.
E.g., this monitor,an LG, seems to have the bezel just a bit off, not
even a millimeter, but with the beveled bezel and the glossy finish,
it's possibly an optical illusion. In this case, it's a slight rotation,
assuming I can believe my eyes.
In any case, it's hard to tell, since a dark pixel is hard to
distinguish from a non-existent pixel, and also my eyes are not 20 years
old any more :-)

You and me both! Heck, mine aren't even 40 years old any more!

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Frank
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:42:41 -0700, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Frank

Post by David Ruether
Yes, mine does appear to display the entire 1920x1080 area
(the test pattern indicated this, since the tiny side and
corner arrow points indicated the whole pattern could appear,
but that it was very slightly off center).

I'm still on my first cup of coffee so I'm not fully awake yet, but if
the panel is native 1920 by 1080 and no portion of it covered by
(hidden behind) the bezel, and you feed it with a 1920 by 1080 signal,
and you can see, as you claim to, all 2,073,600 pixels, how could the
displayed image be "very slightly off center"?

The panel could be not centered in the bezel - or maybe I should say the
bezel is not centered on the panel :-)

Okay, I see what you're saying. There's "play" (space) between the
inner edge of the bezel and the outermost row and/or column of pixels
on the panel and the bezel (or the panel) isn't properly centered
(horizontally and/or vertically) within this space.

Yep.

Post by Frank
I suppose that even if the product left the factory perfectly aligned,
rough handling while in transit to it's final destination (your home
or office or wherever) could have knocked it out of alignment.

Who, me? :-)

Post by Frank
I guess that if you're feeling sufficiently adventurous, you could
remove the rear cover of the unit and try to reposition the panel
and/or the bezel, perhaps with a "helper" watching the front of the
unit as you are performing the positioning/screw tightening operation.

Hardly worth the effort, especially since I can't be sure it's even off.
But for the OP, maybe.

Post by Frank
Personally, over the years, I've often found GF's to be useful in this
role, such as holding the flashlight while my head is buried inside of
some electrical component making adjustments. :)

Or if it requires strength, I let her do the work :-)

Post by Frank
In the service manual for the OP's Panasonic HDTV that I read last
night, there were very specific cautions about the physical alignment
of the panel/bezel relationship. Of course, to remove the unit's rear
cover so as to gain access to the adjustments, it was necessary to
remove, I kid you not, 41 screws!

Post by Gene E. Bloch
No,I'm not kidding. I have seen it, or at least I think I have seen it.
E.g., this monitor,an LG, seems to have the bezel just a bit off, not
even a millimeter, but with the beveled bezel and the glossy finish,
it's possibly an optical illusion. In this case, it's a slight rotation,
assuming I can believe my eyes.
In any case, it's hard to tell, since a dark pixel is hard to
distinguish from a non-existent pixel, and also my eyes are not 20 years
old any more :-)

You and me both! Heck, mine aren't even 40 years old any more!

I was under-exaggerating - by a lot!

But I don't wish to play the age card until I reach 100.

[Frank]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:34:26 -0700, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Frank
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:42:41 -0700, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,
I suppose that even if the product left the factory perfectly aligned,
rough handling while in transit to it's final destination (your home
or office or wherever) could have knocked it out of alignment.

Who, me? :-)

No, of course not! I was referring to those strong, husky, young men
who, lacking an education, do that sort of work for a living. :)

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Frank
I guess that if you're feeling sufficiently adventurous, you could
remove the rear cover of the unit and try to reposition the panel
and/or the bezel, perhaps with a "helper" watching the front of the
unit as you are performing the positioning/screw tightening operation.

Hardly worth the effort, especially since I can't be sure it's even off.

Well, even at my lofty ago, I always know when I've gotten it off. :)

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Frank
Personally, over the years, I've often found GF's to be useful in this
role, such as holding the flashlight while my head is buried inside of
some electrical component making adjustments. :)

Or if it requires strength, I let her do the work :-)

Yes! Yes, yes, yes!

I say, if they want equality, then let's give it to them!

Post by Gene E. Bloch
But I don't wish to play the age card until I reach 100.

That's good thinking, young fellow!

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Frank

Post by Gene E. Bloch
Hardly worth the effort, especially since I can't be sure it's even off.

Well, even at my lofty ago, I always know when I've gotten it off. :)

:-)

[David Ruether]

Post by Frank
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:50:01 +0000, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
I should note that the problem is *not* usually related to a defective
television; rather it's just the result of having a full display,
something that only pros had in the old days.

Yes, mine does appear to display the entire 1920x1080 area
(the test pattern indicated this, since the tiny side and
corner arrow points indicated the whole pattern could appear,
but that it was very slightly off center).

I'm still on my first cup of coffee so I'm not fully awake yet, but if
the panel is native 1920 by 1080 and no portion of it covered by
(hidden behind) the bezel, and you feed it with a 1920 by 1080 signal,
and you can see, as you claim to, all 2,073,600 pixels, how could the
displayed image be "very slightly off center"?

You do seem to get little sleep - I hope I do not intrude
too much on what you do get...!;-) As for the above, as I
recall, the test-pattern graphic had VERY small outward
pointing triangles at the image borders. It was evident that
the points were VERY slightly missing at the right edge and
more so along the bottom. Since these were opposite the sides
that sometimes show extra material (sometimes on the left,
with a pixel or two width of a vertical line the color of
the "bug", and sometimes at the top [much more often with
SD] with closed captioning material) and the other sides
showed complete triangles (although the possible extra black
edge of the graphic, if present, was difficult to see against
the black bezel so I don't know if it was present). In any
case, the picture is clearly slightly decentered, and it is
not obvious if the cause is in the TV or in the cable signal,
or what, if anything, can be done about it. Since the problem
is minimal with HD (and solvable with SD by expanding the
picture size somewhat), I have not worried too much about
it - but it would be interesting to know what is going on,
and if a complaint to the cable company would be justified.

Post by Frank

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
The usual solutions range from placing a long strip of black
electrician's tape across the top of the panel (yes, I've actually see
people do this)

I've been tempted...;-)

LOL.

Post by David Ruether
But since the problem is one mostly evident in SD,

That's really the only time that you should even encounter this
problem. It's caused by old standard definition material that was shot
in some analog format and then digitized into a computer for editing.
It's not uncommon in this scenario to see garbage around the edges of
the captured picture.

See above, but it is usually "busy" broken white horizontal
rectangles, often seen with SD, but occasionally also seen
with HD with cable service.

Post by Frank
This can be caused by a number of reasons. Head switching on the
playback VCR is a typical reason, especially with VHS and S-VHS decks.
Inserting a few of lines of video black at the top and bottom of each
frame of video will hide the problem and few viewers will ever notice
the difference. I've done this with old Sony U-matic content.

Post by David Ruether
with that I use the TV's ability to somewhat
enlarge the overall picture, which can look quite good.

It may "look quite good", but aren't you decreasing the apparent
resolution of the video when you do this?

Yes, technically I am, but it does generally still look
good even with SD material, and losing that busy distraction
at the top of the picture is WORTH IT!;-) Since this is not
generally necessary with HD, there is no loss with that...;-)

Post by Frank

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
to getting your hands on a copy of the service manual
and availing yourself of any relevant adjustments that might help to
resolve, or at least hide, the problem.

Scary for some of us...!

Manuals don't bite! Manuals are your friend!

Not if I "mess up"! 8^(

Post by Frank
Are you in possession of the service manual for your particular telly?

No, or I would possibly be more aware of my limits while
tinkering with this...

Post by Frank
Note that modern HDTVs, and especially anything designed and built in
the last two years or so, are really just computers with some
peripheral devices attached, such as the display panel. Most
adjustments, therefore, are made by changing the values of items in
the service menus. This is usually done using the HDTV's remote
control. Very little, if any, electronic test equipment
(oscilloscopes, volt meters, etc.) is required. Because of this,
almost anyone can go in and tweak their HDTV's various internal
settings.

This is good to know...

Post by Frank
And if you're concerned about screwing things up, there's usually a
Reset function that will return all settings back to their factory
defaults.

This is also good to know...

Post by Frank
Of course, writing down the values of all of the initial settings,
prior to making any changes, is also a good idea.

This is also VERY good to know...! 8^)

Post by Frank

Post by David Ruether
[..., but thanks for the further comments.]

You're very welcome.
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].

Thanks, again - but please do get enough sleep! (I also sometimes
write on the alt.support.sleep-disorder NG.........zzzzzzzzzz! 8^)
--DR

[Frank]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:58:31 +0000, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:50:01 +0000, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

You do seem to get little sleep -

That is (often) true, and at my age, I do need my "beauty rest". :)

Post by David Ruether
I hope I do not intrude too much on what you do get...!;-)

No problem, but you should see my e-mail sometimes!

Post by David Ruether
As for the above, as I
recall, the test-pattern graphic had VERY small outward
pointing triangles at the image borders. It was evident that
the points were VERY slightly missing at the right edge and
more so along the bottom. Since these were opposite the sides
that sometimes show extra material (sometimes on the left,
with a pixel or two width of a vertical line the color of
the "bug", and sometimes at the top [much more often with
SD] with closed captioning material) and the other sides
showed complete triangles (although the possible extra black
edge of the graphic, if present, was difficult to see against
the black bezel so I don't know if it was present). In any
case, the picture is clearly slightly decentered, and it is
not obvious if the cause is in the TV or in the cable signal,
or what, if anything, can be done about it. Since the problem
is minimal with HD (and solvable with SD by expanding the
picture size somewhat), I have not worried too much about
it - but it would be interesting to know what is going on,
and if a complaint to the cable company would be justified.

In my case, I wouldn't bother contacting the cable company, already
knowing in advance what sort of response I would receive. :)

Post by David Ruether
See above, but it is usually "busy" broken white horizontal
rectangles, often seen with SD, but occasionally also seen
with HD with cable service.

That would drive me crazy, by the way.

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
to getting your hands on a copy of the service manual
and availing yourself of any relevant adjustments that might help to
resolve, or at least hide, the problem.

Scary for some of us...!

Manuals don't bite! Manuals are your friend!

Not if I "mess up"! 8^(

It is better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all.

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
Are you in possession of the service manual for your particular telly?

No, or I would possibly be more aware of my limits while
tinkering with this...

Google is your friend(tm). And if you can't locate a copy, let me know
the exact make and model and I'll give it a shot.

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
Note that modern HDTVs, and especially anything designed and built in
the last two years or so, are really just computers with some
peripheral devices attached, such as the display panel. Most
adjustments, therefore, are made by changing the values of items in
the service menus. This is usually done using the HDTV's remote
control. Very little, if any, electronic test equipment
(oscilloscopes, volt meters, etc.) is required. Because of this,
almost anyone can go in and tweak their HDTV's various internal
settings.

This is good to know...

Post by Frank
And if you're concerned about screwing things up, there's usually a
Reset function that will return all settings back to their factory
defaults.

This is also good to know...

It's sometimes called "Master Reset" or "All Reset". There may also be
another function called simply "Reset", so study the manual carefully
prior to beginning any work.

Post by David Ruether

Post by Frank
Of course, writing down the values of all of the initial settings,
prior to making any changes, is also a good idea.

This is also VERY good to know...! 8^)

This is also useful to do with your computer's ROM BIOS settings,
especially if you've ever changed them for some reason.

Post by David Ruether
Thanks, again - but please do get enough sleep!

I'll try, thank you.

Post by David Ruether
(I also sometimes
write on the alt.support.sleep-disorder NG.........zzzzzzzzzz! 8^)

Of course!

[David Ruether]

[To catch up with some thoughts on this...;-]

Post by Frank

As I recall, the test-pattern graphic had VERY small outward
pointing triangles at the image borders. It was evident that
the points were VERY slightly missing at the right edge and
more so along the bottom. Since these were opposite the sides
that sometimes show extra material (sometimes on the left,
with a pixel or two width of a vertical line the color of
the "bug", and sometimes at the top [much more often with
SD] with closed captioning material) and the other sides
showed complete triangles (although the possible extra black
edge of the graphic, if present, was difficult to see against
the black bezel so I don't know if it was present). In any
case, the picture is clearly slightly decentered, and it is
not obvious if the cause is in the TV or in the cable signal,
or what, if anything, can be done about it. Since the problem
is minimal with HD (and solvable with SD by expanding the
picture size somewhat), I have not worried too much about
it - but it would be interesting to know what is going on,
and if a complaint to the cable company would be justified.

In my case, I wouldn't bother contacting the cable company, already
knowing in advance what sort of response I would receive. :)

See above, but it is usually "busy" broken white horizontal
rectangles, often seen with SD, but occasionally also seen
with HD with cable service.

That would drive me crazy, by the way.

--DR:
It dawned on me (such things DO often take rather a l-o-n-g
time these days...) that with no other source (video cameras
[both SD {Mini-DV} and HD {HDV and AVCHD}], DVDs and Blu-ray
discs [made by me or commercial ones], or VHS tapes [also made
by me or commercial ones]) do I have the described picture
decentering problem, so I think it is reasonable to conclude
that the problem originates with the cable company's signal
(Time Warner) - and, I agree that calling the company probably
would be a waste of time... 8^(

[Frank]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:33:28 +0000, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by David Ruether
[To catch up with some thoughts on this...;-]

Post by Frank

As I recall, the test-pattern graphic had VERY small outward
pointing triangles at the image borders. It was evident that
the points were VERY slightly missing at the right edge and
more so along the bottom. Since these were opposite the sides
that sometimes show extra material (sometimes on the left,
with a pixel or two width of a vertical line the color of
the "bug", and sometimes at the top [much more often with
SD] with closed captioning material) and the other sides
showed complete triangles (although the possible extra black
edge of the graphic, if present, was difficult to see against
the black bezel so I don't know if it was present). In any
case, the picture is clearly slightly decentered, and it is
not obvious if the cause is in the TV or in the cable signal,
or what, if anything, can be done about it. Since the problem
is minimal with HD (and solvable with SD by expanding the
picture size somewhat), I have not worried too much about
it - but it would be interesting to know what is going on,
and if a complaint to the cable company would be justified.

In my case, I wouldn't bother contacting the cable company, already
knowing in advance what sort of response I would receive. :)

See above, but it is usually "busy" broken white horizontal
rectangles, often seen with SD, but occasionally also seen
with HD with cable service.

That would drive me crazy, by the way.

It dawned on me (such things DO often take rather a l-o-n-g
time these days...) that with no other source (video cameras
[both SD {Mini-DV} and HD {HDV and AVCHD}], DVDs and Blu-ray
discs [made by me or commercial ones], or VHS tapes [also made
by me or commercial ones]) do I have the described picture
decentering problem, so I think it is reasonable to conclude
that the problem originates with the cable company's signal
(Time Warner) - and, I agree that calling the company probably
would be a waste of time... 8^(

I'm currently with RCN, and have also (for a four-month period) used
Cablevision, but have spent 25 years of my life with Time Warner.

If you're having this problem, there's just the possibility that some
or all of your neighbors are also having it, so maybe if you all
banded together and marched on your local TW office, you might get
results - or at least your picture in the local paper. :)

There's also, I suppose, the very unlikely possibility that the cause
of the problem lies with your cable converter box.

Maybe you should give TW a call just to hear what they have to say.

[David Ruether]

Post by Frank
On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:33:28 +0000, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: How to Move Panasonic Plasma Picture?>,

Post by David Ruether
[To catch up with some thoughts on this...;-]

Post by Frank

As I recall, the test-pattern graphic had VERY small outward
pointing triangles at the image borders. It was evident that
the points were VERY slightly missing at the right edge and
more so along the bottom. Since these were opposite the sides
that sometimes show extra material (sometimes on the left,
with a pixel or two width of a vertical line the color of
the "bug", and sometimes at the top [much more often with
SD] with closed captioning material) and the other sides
showed complete triangles (although the possible extra black
edge of the graphic, if present, was difficult to see against
the black bezel so I don't know if it was present). In any
case, the picture is clearly slightly decentered, and it is
not obvious if the cause is in the TV or in the cable signal,
or what, if anything, can be done about it. Since the problem
is minimal with HD (and solvable with SD by expanding the
picture size somewhat), I have not worried too much about
it - but it would be interesting to know what is going on,
and if a complaint to the cable company would be justified.

In my case, I wouldn't bother contacting the cable company, already
knowing in advance what sort of response I would receive. :)

See above, but it is usually "busy" broken white horizontal
rectangles, often seen with SD, but occasionally also seen
with HD with cable service.

That would drive me crazy, by the way.

It dawned on me (such things DO often take rather a l-o-n-g
time these days...) that with no other source (video cameras
[both SD {Mini-DV} and HD {HDV and AVCHD}], DVDs and Blu-ray
discs [made by me or commercial ones], or VHS tapes [also made
by me or commercial ones]) do I have the described picture
decentering problem, so I think it is reasonable to conclude
that the problem originates with the cable company's signal
(Time Warner) - and, I agree that calling the company probably
would be a waste of time... 8^(

I'm currently with RCN, and have also (for a four-month period) used
Cablevision, but have spent 25 years of my life with Time Warner.
If you're having this problem, there's just the possibility that some
or all of your neighbors are also having it, so maybe if you all
banded together and marched on your local TW office, you might get
results - or at least your picture in the local paper. :)

8^)
I haven't checked with them, but I suspect that they
would not have noticed such a "finicky" thing, or more
likely, they either do not have HDTVs, or have ones that
show the full 1920x1080 area. Out of curiosity I checked
several SD channels and one HD channel I could get on the
bedroom 720p TV hooked directly to the cable. The picture
there was also low on some channels, showing the closed
captioning "garbage" at the top - and the BBC broadcast
on two PBS stations was very much lower than center.
BAD cable company, BAD! 8^)

Post by Frank
There's also, I suppose, the very unlikely possibility that the cause
of the problem lies with your cable converter box.

We've had three boxes, for various reasons, all alike in
this respect.

Post by Frank
Maybe you should give TW a call just to hear what they have to say.
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].

Thanks for the advice and info. One thing I will say
about our local TW cable company is that if there is
a problem (other than this one), they will talk you
through it, or send someone soon. A technician there
once got me through a problem at midnight on Christmas
eve, even though he had been due to leave...
--DR

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by David Ruether
A technician there
once got me through a problem at midnight on Christmas
eve, even though he had been due to leave...

I presume his reindeer just waited patiently for him?

[David Ruether]

Post by Gene E. Bloch

A technician there [at Time Warner Cable]
once got me through a problem at midnight on Christmas
eve, even though he had been due to leave...

I presume his reindeer just waited patiently for him?
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

I presume so since I could hear in the distance during
the lengthy conversation the clatter of many hooves on
the ice outside...8^)
--DR