Discussion:
Digital Camcorder recommendation?
(too old to reply)
Neil Jones
2010-01-24 08:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Hello everyone,

I am an amateur photographer and try to creat slide shows with the
photos. Some of them did turn really good. I want try and take videos
now. I haven't owned a camcorder for 10 years now and the last one I
owned used 8mi (something like that) tapes.

I am looking for some advice and recommendations on which camcorder I
should buy. These are the features I am looking for:

1. High Optical Zoom
2. High FPS for slow motion capture.
3. Lens accessories (wide angle, telephoto and macro zooming lenses
availability)

Also, I am planning to move all my computer activities to Linux. Are
there any good video editing tools on Linux?

Thank you in advance.

NJ
Frank
2010-01-24 16:55:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:13:12 +0100, in 'rec.video',
in article <Digital Camcorder recommendation?>,
Post by Neil Jones
Hello everyone,
Hello Neil,
Post by Neil Jones
I am an amateur photographer and try to creat slide shows with the
photos. Some of them did turn really good. I want try and take videos
now. I haven't owned a camcorder for 10 years now and the last one I
owned used 8mi (something like that) tapes.
It was probably Video 8 or Hi8 format if analog or Digital8 (D8)
format if digital.
Post by Neil Jones
I am looking for some advice and recommendations on which camcorder I
1. High Optical Zoom
12x to 20x is about as good as you're going to find in the typical
one-piece camcorder. Anything beyond that puts you into specialized
territory.
Post by Neil Jones
2. High FPS for slow motion capture.
There are some low-end consumer grade camcorders that offer very high
over-cranking rates, often promoted as being useful for analyzing golf
swings, for example, but these products drop the frame size so as to
limit the recorded data rate, resulting in extremely low-grade video.
(Low-grade in this instance means just above cell phone quality.) In
other words, the feature is just a gimmick for the unknowing and not
designed or intended for serious professional use.

Truly high speed cameras do exist, but they're usually very pricey,
specialized products relegated to the professional world and are
usually rented as needed and not purchased outright.
Post by Neil Jones
3. Lens accessories (wide angle, telephoto and macro zooming lenses
availability)
Sounds like you want a camcorder with an interchangeable lens
capability. This alone will up the price considerably compared to the
usual consumer offerings.

In summary, I don't see how anyone can really make any recommendations
for you without knowing your budget. I can tell you that the world's
best camcorder is probably the Sony SRW-9000. You might want to take a
serious look at what that has to offer and then work your way downward
to a more comfortable price point.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-SRW9000/

In the under (U.S.) $10,000 category, the best camcorder in my opinion
is the Sony PMW-EX1R. If you really need interchangeable lens
capability, then it would be the PMW-EX3. These are both XDCAM EX
format products that record to (solid state) flash memory cards, not
magnetic tape. The use of tape is slowly disappearing at all levels of
the video food chain and is now essentially gone at the consumer level
in the sense that few if any new tape-based consumer camcorders will
be introduced - and certainly no high-quality models.

Also in the budget category, you've got the handheld Panasonic
AG-HMC40 series products (24 Mbps interframe AVCHD format), as well as
the full-size, over-the-shoulder Panasonic AG-HPX300 series products
(AVC-Intra format at 100 Mbps intraframe). While I like the 10-bit
4:2:2 AVC-Intra 100 codec, overall I would tend to take a PMW-EX1R
over the Panny.

If your needs are really specialized, and don't include such ordinary
and mundane activities such as "family video", you might want to
consider use of a DSLR such as the Canon EOS 5D Mark II or for great
low-light capability, the new Canon EOS-1D Mark IV, but please be
warned that using a DSLR as a camcorder imposes a number of
limitations that camcorder users simply do not face.

A primary limitation is ergonomic, making it almost impossible to use
a DSLR in typical run-and-gun situations. If you're planning all of
your shots, have lots of time in which to set them up, and have full
control over the shot, then a DSLR may be for you, else my advice is
to use a still image camera for shooting stills and a camcorder for
shooting motion video (some would say, as god intended).

The other major limitation related to using a DSLR for shooting video
relates to resolution. No one, especially the DSLR-as-camcorder
fanboys, wants to talk about it, but the video resolution from a 1080p
DSLR is usually in the 500 to 700 line range. The Sony PMW-EX1R, in
comparison, will give you almost 1000 lines of real resolution. The
apparent resolution that you'll see from a DSLR is mostly attributable
to aliasing, so it's false resolution and not real. This is
unacceptable to the technically inclined user, but the movie maker
crowd seems to like it.
Post by Neil Jones
Also, I am planning to move all my computer activities to Linux. Are
there any good video editing tools on Linux?
I'll let the Linux users answer that one.
Post by Neil Jones
Thank you in advance.
Hope this helps.
Post by Neil Jones
NJ
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
Neil Jones
2010-01-25 22:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Frank,

Thanks for this input. Yes, I should have mentioned my budget too. It
is $500 and $800. Certainly, I would be making mostly home/vacation
videos. Within that category, I would like to go to the high end HD
camcorder. Probably I am asking too much without knowing the field well.

Any recommendation within that budget would be great.

Thank you once again.

NJ
Post by Frank
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:13:12 +0100, in 'rec.video',
in article <Digital Camcorder recommendation?>,
Post by Neil Jones
Hello everyone,
Hello Neil,
Post by Neil Jones
I am an amateur photographer and try to creat slide shows with the
photos. Some of them did turn really good. I want try and take videos
now. I haven't owned a camcorder for 10 years now and the last one I
owned used 8mi (something like that) tapes.
It was probably Video 8 or Hi8 format if analog or Digital8 (D8)
format if digital.
Post by Neil Jones
I am looking for some advice and recommendations on which camcorder I
1. High Optical Zoom
12x to 20x is about as good as you're going to find in the typical
one-piece camcorder. Anything beyond that puts you into specialized
territory.
Post by Neil Jones
2. High FPS for slow motion capture.
There are some low-end consumer grade camcorders that offer very high
over-cranking rates, often promoted as being useful for analyzing golf
swings, for example, but these products drop the frame size so as to
limit the recorded data rate, resulting in extremely low-grade video.
(Low-grade in this instance means just above cell phone quality.) In
other words, the feature is just a gimmick for the unknowing and not
designed or intended for serious professional use.
Truly high speed cameras do exist, but they're usually very pricey,
specialized products relegated to the professional world and are
usually rented as needed and not purchased outright.
Post by Neil Jones
3. Lens accessories (wide angle, telephoto and macro zooming lenses
availability)
Sounds like you want a camcorder with an interchangeable lens
capability. This alone will up the price considerably compared to the
usual consumer offerings.
In summary, I don't see how anyone can really make any recommendations
for you without knowing your budget. I can tell you that the world's
best camcorder is probably the Sony SRW-9000. You might want to take a
serious look at what that has to offer and then work your way downward
to a more comfortable price point.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-SRW9000/
In the under (U.S.) $10,000 category, the best camcorder in my opinion
is the Sony PMW-EX1R. If you really need interchangeable lens
capability, then it would be the PMW-EX3. These are both XDCAM EX
format products that record to (solid state) flash memory cards, not
magnetic tape. The use of tape is slowly disappearing at all levels of
the video food chain and is now essentially gone at the consumer level
in the sense that few if any new tape-based consumer camcorders will
be introduced - and certainly no high-quality models.
Also in the budget category, you've got the handheld Panasonic
AG-HMC40 series products (24 Mbps interframe AVCHD format), as well as
the full-size, over-the-shoulder Panasonic AG-HPX300 series products
(AVC-Intra format at 100 Mbps intraframe). While I like the 10-bit
4:2:2 AVC-Intra 100 codec, overall I would tend to take a PMW-EX1R
over the Panny.
If your needs are really specialized, and don't include such ordinary
and mundane activities such as "family video", you might want to
consider use of a DSLR such as the Canon EOS 5D Mark II or for great
low-light capability, the new Canon EOS-1D Mark IV, but please be
warned that using a DSLR as a camcorder imposes a number of
limitations that camcorder users simply do not face.
A primary limitation is ergonomic, making it almost impossible to use
a DSLR in typical run-and-gun situations. If you're planning all of
your shots, have lots of time in which to set them up, and have full
control over the shot, then a DSLR may be for you, else my advice is
to use a still image camera for shooting stills and a camcorder for
shooting motion video (some would say, as god intended).
The other major limitation related to using a DSLR for shooting video
relates to resolution. No one, especially the DSLR-as-camcorder
fanboys, wants to talk about it, but the video resolution from a 1080p
DSLR is usually in the 500 to 700 line range. The Sony PMW-EX1R, in
comparison, will give you almost 1000 lines of real resolution. The
apparent resolution that you'll see from a DSLR is mostly attributable
to aliasing, so it's false resolution and not real. This is
unacceptable to the technically inclined user, but the movie maker
crowd seems to like it.
Post by Neil Jones
Also, I am planning to move all my computer activities to Linux. Are
there any good video editing tools on Linux?
I'll let the Linux users answer that one.
Post by Neil Jones
Thank you in advance.
Hope this helps.
Post by Neil Jones
NJ
Frank
2010-01-25 21:12:29 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:00:16 +0100, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: Digital Camcorder recommendation?>,
Post by Frank
Frank,
Thanks for this input. Yes, I should have mentioned my budget too. It
is $500 and $800. Certainly, I would be making mostly home/vacation
videos. Within that category, I would like to go to the high end HD
camcorder. Probably I am asking too much without knowing the field well.
Any recommendation within that budget would be great.
Thank you once again.
NJ
So I guess that a $100,000 Sony SRW-9000 is completely out of the
question?

Okay, would you settle for a $699 Canon HV40? It's a 25 Mbps cassette
tape based palmcorder-sized DV/HDV camcorder and offers fairly decent
image quality for the price and you'll have money left over for
accessories.

Or perhaps someone else will have some other suggestions for you.

Good luck!
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
Neil Jones
2010-01-25 22:41:45 UTC
Permalink
:-) Yes. The $100000 camcorder got to wait until I will the lotto
jackpot. :-)

I will check out the Canon HV40 model. Probably, sometime next month.

Thank you once again.

NJ
Post by Frank
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:00:16 +0100, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: Digital Camcorder recommendation?>,
Post by Frank
Frank,
Thanks for this input. Yes, I should have mentioned my budget too. It
is $500 and $800. Certainly, I would be making mostly home/vacation
videos. Within that category, I would like to go to the high end HD
camcorder. Probably I am asking too much without knowing the field well.
Any recommendation within that budget would be great.
Thank you once again.
NJ
So I guess that a $100,000 Sony SRW-9000 is completely out of the
question?
Okay, would you settle for a $699 Canon HV40? It's a 25 Mbps cassette
tape based palmcorder-sized DV/HDV camcorder and offers fairly decent
image quality for the price and you'll have money left over for
accessories.
Or perhaps someone else will have some other suggestions for you.
Good luck!
David Ruether
2010-01-25 21:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:00:16 +0100, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: Digital Camcorder recommendation?>,
Post by Frank
Frank,
Thanks for this input. Yes, I should have mentioned my budget too. It
is $500 and $800. Certainly, I would be making mostly home/vacation
videos. Within that category, I would like to go to the high end HD
camcorder. Probably I am asking too much without knowing the field well.
Any recommendation within that budget would be great.
Thank you once again.
NJ
So I guess that a $100,000 Sony SRW-9000 is completely out of the
question?
8^)
Post by Frank
Okay, would you settle for a $699 Canon HV40? It's a 25 Mbps cassette
tape based palmcorder-sized DV/HDV camcorder and offers fairly decent
image quality for the price and you'll have money left over for
accessories.
I second this choice not only because that camcorder is good (see my
review at http://www.donferrario.com/ruether/Canon_HV20-HV30.htm),
but, given your camera budget, it is unlikely that your computer resources
are sufficient to edit any HD video material of equal quality (to that
produced by the tape-based HV40) which is written to memory cards
or hard drives. BTW, for editing this material, I like Sony Platinum 9
software (see my http://www.donferrario.com/ruether/hdv-editing.htm
and http://www.donferrario.com/ruether/Sony-editing.htm for more on
this versatile under $100 editing program - although others may have
alternative favorites...).
--DR
Post by Frank
Or perhaps someone else will have some other suggestions for you.
Good luck!
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
2010-01-26 17:33:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:00:16 +0100, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: Digital Camcorder recommendation?>,
Post by Frank
Frank,
Thanks for this input. Yes, I should have mentioned my budget too. It
is $500 and $800. Certainly, I would be making mostly home/vacation
videos. Within that category, I would like to go to the high end HD
camcorder. Probably I am asking too much without knowing the field well.
Any recommendation within that budget would be great.
Thank you once again.
NJ
So I guess that a $100,000 Sony SRW-9000 is completely out of the
question?
Okay, would you settle for a $699 Canon HV40? It's a 25 Mbps cassette
tape based palmcorder-sized DV/HDV camcorder and offers fairly decent
image quality for the price and you'll have money left over for
accessories.
Or perhaps someone else will have some other suggestions for you.
Good luck!
--
Seconded. Because with the digital cassete (mini DV)
you will keep your originals, and each time you need more copies, you'll pop
it in your camcorder-ready.
OTOH, with a memory card, you probably need another hard drive (well, they
aren't that expensive..) to keep your originals. (I have one of the good SD,
Sony DCR HC-32E, with mini DV tape).
--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr
Richard Crowley
2010-01-26 20:25:33 UTC
Permalink
"Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" wrote ...
"Frank" wrote ...
Post by Frank
Okay, would you settle for a $699 Canon HV40?
Seconded. Because with the digital cassete (mini DV)
you will keep your originals, and each time you need more copies, you'll
pop it in your camcorder-ready.
OTOH, with a memory card, you probably need another hard drive (well, they
aren't that expensive..) to keep your originals. (I have one of the good
SD, Sony DCR HC-32E, with mini DV tape).
+1

The Canon HV series is probably the best of the less-expensive
consumer camcorder market today.

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