MPEG2/4 and Sony

[Roman Rumian]

Dear Friends,

what is the contribution of Sony to MPEG2 or MPEG4 video standard ?
How do this company participate in the benefits of these standards ?
Could you give me a short answer ?

Thank you.

Roman Rumian

[Brian]

Post by Roman Rumian
Dear Friends,
what is the contribution of Sony to MPEG2 or MPEG4 video standard ?
How do this company participate in the benefits of these standards ?
Could you give me a short answer ?
Thank you.
Roman Rumian

Sony has its own standard which is AVCHD and is used on Blu-ray movie discs
and video cameras.

[Frank]

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 01:58:05 GMT, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: MPEG2/4 and Sony>,

Post by Brian

Post by Roman Rumian
Dear Friends,
what is the contribution of Sony to MPEG2 or MPEG4 video standard ?
How do this company participate in the benefits of these standards ?
Could you give me a short answer ?
Thank you.
Roman Rumian

Sony has its own standard which is AVCHD

Sorry to be my usual pedantic self, but for the benefit of the OP,
AVCHD is not a "Sony standard". AVCHD was devised by Panasonic who
invited Sony to join them in announcing the new format, which they
did, and that's why the original AVCHD announcement was a joint
Panasonic-Sony announcement.

Of course, AVCHD has since become the de facto standard on consumer
grade camcorders, and other low-end video devices, and any
manufacturer that's willing to pay the licensing fees (to MPEG LA) is
welcome to implement it in their products, and indeed many do.

But it is by no means a "Sony standard", or even a "Panasonic
standard".

Post by Brian
and is used on Blu-ray movie discs and video cameras.

AVCHD is *not* used on "Blu-ray movie discs".

"Blu-ray movie discs" can use MPEG-2, MPEG-4 Part 10 AVC / H.264, or
VC-1 video encoding. It's just by coincidence that the AVCHD camcorder
video format happens to also use MPEG-4 Part 10 AVC / H.264 video
encoding.

MPEG-2 and MPEG-4, including both MPEG-4 Part 2 and MPEG-4 Part 10,
are ISO/IEC International Standards.

VC-1, devised by Microsoft and based upon WMV 9, is a SMPTE standard.

MPEG-4 Part 10 is also an ITU-T standard (H.264).

As to the OP's question, if I were being paid to write a full report,
I would do so, but since I'm not, I'll just say, look up the Sony
HDCAM SR video format. It's a 10-bit format based upon the Studio
Profile of the MPEG-4 Part 2 International Standard and runs at either
440 Mbps or 880 Mbps and is normally recorded to magnetic tape.

The 880 Mbps recording mode supports 4:4:4 RGB video with 12 channels
of 24-bit 48 kHz non-compressed LPCM audio. It's the highest density
video tape recording format ever to have been developed, or ever to be
developed.

Sony has benefited greatly from this as the HDCAM SR format is the
most commonly used tape-based format for high definition program
interchange - and this is true not just in North America, but
worldwide - but do note that various forms of file-based interchange
are replacing HDCAM SR tape as the major interchange format. There are
multiple reasons for this, not the least of which was the recent
severe shortage of HDCAM SR tape caused by the tsunami in Japan.

Here are three references (of many) on the subject.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/03/sony_hd_tape_shortage_tsunami.php

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/industry-scrambling-japan-earthquake-tsunami-169456

http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2011/apr/14/quake-japan-causes-shortage-sony-tape-stock/

HDCAM SR used to be Sony's highest quality video format, but that
honor currently goes to their recently-introduced SRMaster format,
which is intended as a motion picture film camera substitute and not
as a regular television video format. The SRMaster format is not
recorded to tape, but instead to high speed flash memory cards.

[Brian]

Post by Frank
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 01:58:05 GMT, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: MPEG2/4 and Sony>,

Post by Brian

Post by Roman Rumian
Dear Friends,
what is the contribution of Sony to MPEG2 or MPEG4 video standard ?
How do this company participate in the benefits of these standards ?
Could you give me a short answer ?
Thank you.
Roman Rumian

Sony has its own standard which is AVCHD

Sorry to be my usual pedantic self, but for the benefit of the OP,
AVCHD is not a "Sony standard". AVCHD was devised by Panasonic who
invited Sony to join them in announcing the new format, which they
did, and that's why the original AVCHD announcement was a joint
Panasonic-Sony announcement.

OK then I was half right as Sony also use AVCHD.

Post by Frank
Of course, AVCHD has since become the de facto standard on consumer
grade camcorders, and other low-end video devices, and any
manufacturer that's willing to pay the licensing fees (to MPEG LA) is
welcome to implement it in their products, and indeed many do.
But it is by no means a "Sony standard", or even a "Panasonic
standard".

Post by Brian
and is used on Blu-ray movie discs and video cameras.

AVCHD is *not* used on "Blu-ray movie discs".

AVCHD has been designed to be compatible with Blu-ray Disc format and can
be authored without re-encoding on Blu-ray discs or DVDs, though not all
Blu-ray Disc players are compatible with AVCHD video authored on DVD media,
a format known as AVCHD disc.

Post by Frank
"Blu-ray movie discs" can use MPEG-2, MPEG-4 Part 10 AVC / H.264, or
VC-1 video encoding. It's just by coincidence that the AVCHD camcorder
video format happens to also use MPEG-4 Part 10 AVC / H.264 video
encoding.

OK correct me if I'm wrong but the M2TS file from my video camera is
displayed in the file properties as a AVCHD file.
On a blu-ray movie disc there are M2TS files in the stream folder, so these
must be AVCHD files.
It's interesting the file file structure for a video camera is the same
file structure for a Blu-ray movie disc.

Post by Frank
MPEG-2 and MPEG-4, including both MPEG-4 Part 2 and MPEG-4 Part 10,
are ISO/IEC International Standards.
VC-1, devised by Microsoft and based upon WMV 9, is a SMPTE standard.
MPEG-4 Part 10 is also an ITU-T standard (H.264).
As to the OP's question, if I were being paid to write a full report,
I would do so, but since I'm not, I'll just say, look up the Sony
HDCAM SR video format. It's a 10-bit format based upon the Studio
Profile of the MPEG-4 Part 2 International Standard and runs at either
440 Mbps or 880 Mbps and is normally recorded to magnetic tape.
The 880 Mbps recording mode supports 4:4:4 RGB video with 12 channels
of 24-bit 48 kHz non-compressed LPCM audio. It's the highest density
video tape recording format ever to have been developed, or ever to be
developed.
Sony has benefited greatly from this as the HDCAM SR format is the
most commonly used tape-based format for high definition program
interchange - and this is true not just in North America, but
worldwide - but do note that various forms of file-based interchange
are replacing HDCAM SR tape as the major interchange format. There are
multiple reasons for this, not the least of which was the recent
severe shortage of HDCAM SR tape caused by the tsunami in Japan.
Here are three references (of many) on the subject.
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/03/sony_hd_tape_shortage_tsunami.php
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/industry-scrambling-japan-earthquake-tsunami-169456
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2011/apr/14/quake-japan-causes-shortage-sony-tape-stock/
HDCAM SR used to be Sony's highest quality video format, but that
honor currently goes to their recently-introduced SRMaster format,
which is intended as a motion picture film camera substitute and not
as a regular television video format. The SRMaster format is not
recorded to tape, but instead to high speed flash memory cards.

[Frank]

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:11:32 GMT, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: MPEG2/4 and Sony>,

Post by Brian

Post by Frank
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 01:58:05 GMT, in 'rec.video',
in article <Re: MPEG2/4 and Sony>,

Post by Brian

Post by Roman Rumian
Dear Friends,
what is the contribution of Sony to MPEG2 or MPEG4 video standard ?
How do this company participate in the benefits of these standards ?
Could you give me a short answer ?
Thank you.
Roman Rumian

Sony has its own standard which is AVCHD

Sorry to be my usual pedantic self, but for the benefit of the OP,
AVCHD is not a "Sony standard". AVCHD was devised by Panasonic who
invited Sony to join them in announcing the new format, which they
did, and that's why the original AVCHD announcement was a joint
Panasonic-Sony announcement.

OK then I was half right as Sony also use AVCHD.

I was mostly objecting to your use of the expression "its own
standard", as AVCHD isn't anyone's standard; in fact, it's not a
standard at all. It's simply an application of ISO/IEC International
Standard 14496-10, also known as ITU-T Recommendation H.264.

It's the video compression format that's standardized, not the AVCHD
video format.

Same with HDV. It's not a standard, although the video encoding method
used, MPEG-2 (and the audio encoding too, MPEG-1 Layer 2), are
promulgated by the ISO/IEC as International Standards.

In order for something to be standardized, it has to be submitted to
and subsequently approved by a recognized standards setting body.
ISO/IEC and the ITU are examples of recognized standards setting
bodies; Panasonic and Sony are not.

I DID SAY that I was being pedantic, after all. :)

And just for the record, there are absolutely no plans on the part of
any manufacturer or other entity to submit the AVCHD video format (or
the HDV video format, for that matter) to any standards setting body.

Post by Brian

Post by Frank
Of course, AVCHD has since become the de facto standard on consumer
grade camcorders, and other low-end video devices, and any
manufacturer that's willing to pay the licensing fees (to MPEG LA) is
welcome to implement it in their products, and indeed many do.
But it is by no means a "Sony standard", or even a "Panasonic
standard".

Post by Brian
and is used on Blu-ray movie discs and video cameras.

AVCHD is *not* used on "Blu-ray movie discs".

AVCHD has been designed to be compatible with Blu-ray Disc format and can
be authored without re-encoding on Blu-ray discs or DVDs, though not all
Blu-ray Disc players are compatible with AVCHD video authored on DVD media,
a format known as AVCHD disc.

Post by Frank
"Blu-ray movie discs" can use MPEG-2, MPEG-4 Part 10 AVC / H.264, or
VC-1 video encoding. It's just by coincidence that the AVCHD camcorder
video format happens to also use MPEG-4 Part 10 AVC / H.264 video
encoding.

OK correct me if I'm wrong but the M2TS file from my video camera is
displayed in the file properties as a AVCHD file.
On a blu-ray movie disc there are M2TS files in the stream folder, so these
must be AVCHD files.

If you can show me where in the Blu-ray Disc specs it says that any
one of the permissible three different video encoding methods is based
upon the AVCHD camcorder video format, please do so.

Post by Brian
It's interesting the file file structure for a video camera is the same
file structure for a Blu-ray movie disc.

I think that that was more a case of not reinventing the wheel.

Also, if you'll recall, in the early days of AVCHD camcorders, there
were models produced that recorded to optical discs rather than the
flash memory cards that are used today.

It was possible to take a disc that had just been recorded in one of
these camcorders and pop it into an ordinary television-attached
Blu-ray Disc player and play the disc.

This was by design.

Post by Brian

Post by Frank
MPEG-2 and MPEG-4, including both MPEG-4 Part 2 and MPEG-4 Part 10,
are ISO/IEC International Standards.
VC-1, devised by Microsoft and based upon WMV 9, is a SMPTE standard.
MPEG-4 Part 10 is also an ITU-T standard (H.264).
As to the OP's question, if I were being paid to write a full report,
I would do so, but since I'm not, I'll just say, look up the Sony
HDCAM SR video format. It's a 10-bit format based upon the Studio
Profile of the MPEG-4 Part 2 International Standard and runs at either
440 Mbps or 880 Mbps and is normally recorded to magnetic tape.
The 880 Mbps recording mode supports 4:4:4 RGB video with 12 channels
of 24-bit 48 kHz non-compressed LPCM audio. It's the highest density
video tape recording format ever to have been developed, or ever to be
developed.
Sony has benefited greatly from this as the HDCAM SR format is the
most commonly used tape-based format for high definition program
interchange - and this is true not just in North America, but
worldwide - but do note that various forms of file-based interchange
are replacing HDCAM SR tape as the major interchange format. There are
multiple reasons for this, not the least of which was the recent
severe shortage of HDCAM SR tape caused by the tsunami in Japan.
Here are three references (of many) on the subject.
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/03/sony_hd_tape_shortage_tsunami.php
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/industry-scrambling-japan-earthquake-tsunami-169456
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2011/apr/14/quake-japan-causes-shortage-sony-tape-stock/
HDCAM SR used to be Sony's highest quality video format, but that
honor currently goes to their recently-introduced SRMaster format,
which is intended as a motion picture film camera substitute and not
as a regular television video format. The SRMaster format is not
recorded to tape, but instead to high speed flash memory cards.

[Roman Rumian]

Hi,

W dniu 2012-03-18 02:58, Brian pisze:
(...)

Post by Brian
Sony has its own standard which is AVCHD and is used on Blu-ray movie discs
and video cameras.

thank you Bian, but I am interested in Sony participation in main MPEG2
and MPEG4 standards.

I am asking because one of my friends has a DVD recording device bought
from SONY, and has to pay 1.3 cent for every recorded dvd.

Best regards

Roman

[Kevin McMurtrie]

Post by Roman Rumian
Hi,
(...)

Post by Brian
Sony has its own standard which is AVCHD and is used on Blu-ray movie discs
and video cameras.

thank you Bian, but I am interested in Sony participation in main MPEG2
and MPEG4 standards.
I am asking because one of my friends has a DVD recording device bought
from SONY, and has to pay 1.3 cent for every recorded dvd.
Best regards
Roman

The short answer is that you're paying into a patent pool for certain
uses of the codecs:
http://www.mpegla.com/

[Roman Rumian]

Dear Kevin,

W dniu 2012-03-20 07:38, Kevin McMurtrie pisze:
(...)

Post by Kevin McMurtrie
The short answer is that you're paying into a patent pool for certain
http://www.mpegla.com/

that's it !

Thank you !

Roman

[mike]

Post by Roman Rumian
Dear Friends,
what is the contribution of Sony to MPEG2 or MPEG4 video standard ?
How do this company participate in the benefits of these standards ?
Could you give me a short answer ?
Thank you.
Roman Rumian

I"m not sure that I understand your question but I'll try and answer
it.
MPEG2 and MPEG4 video standards are determined by a committee that
Sony may or may not be a part of.
As a software manufacturer, their job is to ensure that the videos
produced by their software meet these standards for playback purposes
in a variety of hardware and software devices.
The biggest problem is that a lot of these standards are only
"recommended", not mandatory, which gives all software companies a lot
of leeway in meeting them.
Does that answer your question?

Mike